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Thread: about village lado sarai

  1. #1

    about village lado sarai

    February 24, 2006
    Local Histories - a tale from Lado Sarai
    This is the first of a new column I write, called 'Resident Alien'.
    It's actually an extract from a presentation I made at a conference, and is still readable, so my future in academia doesn't look too bright!!!
    It's about Dilli, ruins, myths, and turning recieved classroom notions of history and the past on their head.
    Predictable, really :-)

    Lado Sarai has the famous f Bar and lounge, the Bed Lounge, and many carpet showrooms. On what used to be the agricultural land of the village, the government, in 2002, erected a Prithviraj Memorial, valorizing the last ‘Hindu’ king of Delhi, who went down bravely fighting the Muslim invaders. L K Advani, at the inauguration, drew a sword and thundered about fighting terrorism from Pakistan. The story of Prithviraj, as told to me in Lado Sarai, is slightly different -

    One day, in his old age, the good king Anang Pal Tomar decided to go on long pilgrimage, and leave the kingdom in the care of two relatives, Prithviraj and Jaichand. Prithviraj was given custody of Delhi and Ajmer, while Jaichand took care of Kannauj.

    Prithviraj told Anangpal that his custody was useless unless he had authority which other kings would believe in. “Give it to me in writing,” he said. “No King can enter Delhi without the permission of Prithviraj.” So Anangpal gave it to him in writing, and went off on his pilgrimage. Not much later, when he returned to his city, the gates were closed to him. No King can enter Delhi without the permission of Prithviraj. And so it was that Prithviraj came to rule Delhi.

    Flashback. A trader from Afghanistan decided to start trading with India and thus expand his business and his profits. So he loaded his goods on camels and came to India, and to the court of the vigorous but childless king, Anangpal Tomar, along with his beautiful daughter. He offered Anagpal his daughter in marriage. “I know that you will have children with her.”

    The marriage was consummated, the child was conceived, but the older, queen was jealous. While the younger queen was pregnant she forbade Anagpal from meeting her, and when the child was born, she threw him out on a garbage pile, ghor in Sanskrit.

    The child was picked up by a passing childless potter, who then brought him up as his own. When the child was seven years ago, King Anangpal passed a judgement which dissatisfied his people. The potter’s son suggested another way in which judgement could be done. The news spread like wildfire and reached the palace.

    Fearing the king’s wrath a servant from the palace went and told the potter who his son really was, and asked him to send the child off to Afghanistan, to his grandfather.

    Years later Mohammad Ghori marched on Delhi to reclaim his inheritance, and Jaichand joined him. Prithviraj was defeated. Lad Singh, a soldier in Jaichand’s army settled in what was to become Lado Sarai village. His four sons lived in four domed structures, four gumbads which existed there prior to their settlement, and around these domes the village of grew.

    Karan Pal Singh, about seventy years old, who told me this story, also told me, There are three kinds of history. One is those written in school books. This is written by those in power, and cannot be trusted. Then there is the history by the person who sits with books and tries to make sense of the past for himself. The third is oral tradition, what people remember from what ancestors tell them. There is some truth in both of these.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by balrajsejwal View Post
    February 24, 2006
    Local Histories - a tale from Lado Sarai
    The story of Prithviraj, as told to me in Lado Sarai, is slightly different -

    One day, in his old age, the good king Anang Pal Tomar decided to go on long pilgrimage, and leave the kingdom in the care of two relatives, Prithviraj and Jaichand. Prithviraj was given custody of Delhi and Ajmer, while Jaichand took care of Kannauj.

    Prithviraj told Anangpal that his custody was useless unless he had authority which other kings would believe in. “Give it to me in writing,” he said. “No King can enter Delhi without the permission of Prithviraj.” So Anangpal gave it to him in writing, and went off on his pilgrimage. Not much later, when he returned to his city, the gates were closed to him. No King can enter Delhi without the permission of Prithviraj. And so it was that Prithviraj came to rule Delhi.

    Karan Pal Singh, about seventy years old, who told me this story, also told me, There are three kinds of history. One is those written in school books. This is written by those in power, and cannot be trusted. Then there is the history by the person who sits with books and tries to make sense of the past for himself. The third is oral tradition, what people remember from what ancestors tell them. There is some truth in both of these.
    Very informative post.

    You might be surprised but I found it true via our pursuits to unearth Jat history by trying to correlate various events in view of of real facts and Inscriptions (second group of history)

    We were discussing this on jat history group with a history professor of foreign university and arguing there were no chohans rulers in delhi and it was given to prithviraj by his nana anangpal tomar.

    In the course of discussion Ravi ji posted some references on tomar and I picked one palam baoli Inscription and tried to understand meaning of that sanskrit texts.

    I tried to take help from some sanskrit friends also.

    Surprisingly the story told by elders was supported there which was put during the handing of power to Prthviraj...

    I will post the text of this inscription..

    17. The Palam- Bawli Inscription.

    || Shri Ganptahyeh Nam|| Om Nameh: Shivaya|

    Srjthi Rakshthi Sanharuih Yastiryathi,
    Prathibodhyati Praja|

    Sa Bhavtohn Bhaktaphroh Haroh Bahvtu
    Bhavuk chintithdahyak: || I ||

    SamrajyasyaBhishek Shriyammardhuni Yasya Mudhidhan
    Prayahtah Kurvanthi Tarangeh Virrath Vichalaccha _

    Martvam Prathi|Shubranshu malavyamathisithchatrachaytraman
    Manathiprabhavoh Bhavtu s Bhavtanh Shankar Shankrishnu;|| 2||

    Abhoji Tomardahdoh Chauhanehsthnantar|

    Hariyanakbhurehsha Shakendra: Shahshtyehsdhunah|| 3||

    Now here it is clearly mentioned that Rajayabhisek of chohannaresh dahdoh(dohata) of ABOJI TOMAR(Anangpal tomar ) was a in the nature of stahnantar (chouhaneshsthantar) meaning that trasnfer from ajmer rather of any victory in order to serve Haryana bhmi.THIS CLEARLY PROVED THAT WHAT ELDERS SAY IS TRUE THAT POWER WAS JUST HANDED TO TAKE CARE TO SAVE HARYANA BHUMI FROM EXTERNAL AGREESION IN THE PERIOD DURING WHICH aNANGPAL WENT FOR PILGRIMAGE.

    In contrast some historians in order to glorify some say that chohan rulers snatched delhi from tomars by defeating them not saying that it was given as a gift by tomars that due to indulgence was lost.

    Prithviraj was jealous of jaichand equally powerful maternal brother of him given equal importance and later kidnapped her daughter and his niece went in to marry making and finally made India a looser .Tomars did control city once prthviraj moved out but the army was defeated and moral was low so could not retain power afterwards.

    I went to mahourali and elders talked as if things happened yesterday.

    Let us keep our endavours to unearth true Jat HISTORY and please send such information from other delhi villages.

  3. #3
    Bhai Balraj and Kharab Ji,

    Very Good information about us(Jats).

    Thanks to both of you.

    Karmveer Chahal
    WORD IMPOSSIBLE SAYS I M POSSIBLE.

    Apologising dosent mean that U are wrong & the other is right.....It only means that U value the relationship much more than ur ego.

  4. #4
    So is it being implied that Ghori was the son of Tomar from his second wife and a Jat ?

    I am not questioning the fact but just want to get it right ........ i dont consider Prithviraj as any hero anyway ........
    Foot Soldier - Azad Hind Fauj - becasue the struggle is not over yet

  5. #5

    History needs to be unearthed

    Karan Pal Singh, about seventy years old, who told me this story, also told me, There are three kinds of history. One is those written in school books. This is written by those in power, and cannot be trusted. Then there is the history by the person who sits with books and tries to make sense of the past for himself. The third is oral tradition, what people remember from what ancestors tell them. There is some truth in both of these.
    Very true - the tell-tales or oral stories by elders need not be totally ignored. My village is situated about 45 km west of Delhi (better to call 'Old Delhi'). On the outskirts of the village, there is a very old ‘Asthal’ or Asharam, an old pucca structure with a Shiva Temple attached to it. The square-shaped building itself is spread in about 1-acre area, erected in limestone with mini red-bricks. Walls are wide and the complex looks like a fort. There is a huge pond (Johad) nearby with old stairs going down into the water. The annual fair or ‘Mela’ is organized next day to Holi festival and a huge wrestling event is also held traditionally.

    Some portion of the building contains an underground portion known as ‘Tahkhana’ which has just one entry door (which remains sealed now). People hesitate to go down to that dark place, fearing that there might be some snakes living in that darkness. Some believe that there could be some hidden treasure inside it. Yet others opine that this ‘Tahkhana’ may contain some ancient weapons like swords, bows, spears etc.

    Elders have been telling us that the structure was built by Shivaji during the times of Aurangzeb. The existing pond actually used to be part of a monsoon river-bed and there used to be a small ashram of a Sadhu at that time. In those days, the place used to be in the midst of a thick jungle and the village’s population was very low. Shivaji once took shelter in the Sadhu's hut for a day or two and then decided to build a pucca structure here with an underground ‘Tahkhana’. Shivaji wanted a place near Delhi from where his spies and few guerilla soldiers could operate and monitor the happenings in Auranzeb’s capital ‘Shahjehanabad’ which is now known as Old Delhi.

    I myself believe that this oral story might be true. Reason – it is just around 350 years ago that it happened i.e. a gap of a few generations only. The Archaeological Department of Government of Haryana may perhaps search that underground portion so that some truth may be revealed.
    .
    Last edited by dndeswal; October 5th, 2006 at 06:17 PM.
    तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kharub View Post
    So is it being implied that Ghori was the son of Tomar from his second wife and a Jat ?

    I am not questioning the fact but just want to get it right ........ i dont consider Prithviraj as any hero anyway ........
    Hi VJ

    The second part of the story relating to ghori may be a myth but I was referring to first part that I quoted in my post and that is a fact and corrobrated by other sources also.

    Coming to ghori the conflict seems to be a dancer Chitralekha and ghori clan too is related to Jats but that is another story too complicated.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dndeswal View Post
    Very true - the tell-tales or oral stories by elders need not be totally ignored. My village is situated about 45 km west of Delhi (better to call 'Old Delhi'). On the outskirts of the village, there is a very old ‘Asthal’ or Asharam, an old pucca structure with a Temple attached to it. The square building itself is spread in about 1-acre area, erected in lime stone with mini red-bricks. Walls are wide and the complex looks like a fort. There is a huge pond (Johad) nearby with old stairs going down into the water. The annual fair or ‘Mela’ is organized next day to Holi festival and a huge wrestling event is also organized.

    Some portion of the building contains an underground portion known as ‘Tahkhana’ which has just one entry door (which remains sealed now). People hesitate to go down to that dark place, fearing that there might be some snakes living in that darkness. Some believe that there could be some hidden treasure inside it. Yet others opine that this ‘Tahkhana’ may contain some ancient weapons like swords, bows, spears etc.

    Elders have been telling us that the structure was built by Shivaji during the times of Aurangzeb. The existing pond actually used to be part of a monsoon river-bed and there used to be a small ashram of a Sadhu at that time. At that time, the place used to be in the midst of a thick jungle and the village’s population was very low. Shivaji once took shelter with that Sadhu for a day or two and then decided to build a pucca structure here with an underground ‘Tahkhana’. Shivaji wanted a place near Delhi from where his spies and few guerilla soldiers could operate and monitor the happenings in Auranzeb’s capital ‘Shahjehanabad’ which is now known as Old Delhi.

    I myself believe that this oral story might be true. Reason – it is just around 350 years ago that it happened i.e. a gap of a few generations only. The Archaeological Department of Government of Haryana may perhaps search that underground portion so that some truth may be revealed.
    .
    There are similar other places having inscription in brahmi script that can give good clue to real history.I heard about a similar place in village kharak having ancient inscription and there is another inscription in Maham unreadble so far.When we were young people used to take sand from an ancient mound in my village and many people got coins most of which were used under parant(utensil for knidding flour)by our tais and chachi,because of ignorance of their real vlaue .We must try to bring this to notice of concerned people AND this may lead to discovery of many unknown chapters in history so far.

  8. #8

    Haryana Country

    Another interesting story that this inscription tells is about Haryana Country.

    Historically this country has included areas of western UP, Haryana and northern Rajasthan and delhi has been its capital historically.

    First time it was mentioned for Anangpal tomar empire later also it was used as such in later inscriptions and was part of one state as late as british times or near dawn of indendence when western up part was taken away from Haryana and merged with oudh to form UP.In a way the traditional state was wiped out whose rulers ruled India for more than 1300 years.Few Jats from west UP today know that name of their original land was Haryana not UP.

    This is from a site about od delhi.....

    The Palam Baoli inscription of A.D. 1276, written in the reign of Ghiyasud-Din Balban, also calls the town Dhilli and the country in which it lies as Hariyanaka. Another inscription dated in A.D. 1328 in the reign of Muhammad Tughluq (A.D. 1324-51), now in the Red Fort Museum, also refers to the city of Dhillika in the Hariyana-country. A less-known inscription dated in A.D. 1326, found in Ladnu in District Didwana, also mentions the city of Dhilli in Haritana-country.

    We must try to rediscover our original history and culture.

  9. #9
    I too read first version of story in a Jat history book, forgot which one... second version looks like myth... though oral version of history is very important care must be taken befoer accepting them in face value....

    -vinod

  10. #10

    Haryana Part Of Delhi Suba

    I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT BEFORE THE FIRST WAR OF INDEPENDENCE 1857 HARYANA WAS PART OF DELHI SUBA. THE NPEPLE OF HARYANA HAD PARTICIPATED IN THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE, WHILE THE RULERS OF TODAYS PUNJAB HAD SUPPORTED THE BRITISHERS .AS A RESULT AFTER THE VICTORY TODAYS HARYANA AND DELHI WERE GIVEN AS REWARD TO THE RULERS OF PUNJAB . LATER WHEN THE BRITISHERS DECIDED TO SHIFT THERE CAPITAL TO DELHI THEY AQUIRED THE TODAYS DELHI BACK FROM THE RULERS OF PUNJAB AND REST OF THE TERRITORY REMAINED WITH THE RULERS OF PUNJAB.THIS TERRITORY LATER WAS SEPRATED FROM PUNJAB AND IS TODAY CALLED THE STATE OF HARYANA.HISTORICALY THE DELHI SUBA EXTENDED UP TO SATLUJ RIVER.

  11. #11
    The Dynasty of Chauhan King of Ajmer


    Someshwar or Somsarde was married with daughter of Anagpal II Ruler of Delhi named Kamlawati of anwar Gotra (Clan) . His son was Prithvi Raj Chauhan. Prithvi


    Raj Chauhan had two queens, one was from Jaipur of Kushwaha Gotra and other was from Chakar Gotra of Hissar. Prithvi Raj has got two sons

    Dhanpal (his two sons were from Dahiya (Jat) and Dahe (Rajput)
    Virpal (his two sons were Haley (Dabas) and Hande (Hooda)

    Haley was married in village Lado Sarai with Heem Kaur of Sheo Raj (Tank Gotra). Haley has one son named Sullan who was married with Raj Dai of Khera village (Rana Gotra). Sullan’s son was Sangte Rana alias Sukhanpal. Sukhanpal was married in Khatri Gotra with Kunjo, daughter of Sewa, Sukhanpal has six sons (1) Kale, (2) Bale (3) Ketha (4) Jeeta (5) Jagdish and (6) Illu.

    Contribution:
    D.S. Dahiya author ‘The Jats, Ancient Rulers’
    K.C. Yadav author ‘Haryana History and Culture’
    Ch: Hoshiar Singh Convenor ‘World Jat Youth Convention Oct..1986 at Kanjhawla’

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by balrajsejwal View Post
    The Dynasty of Chauhan King of Ajmer

    Raj Chauhan had two queens, one was from Jaipur of Kushwaha Gotra and other was from Chakar Gotra of Hissar. Prithvi Raj has got two sons

    Dhanpal (his two sons were from Dahiya (Jat) and Dahe (Rajput)
    Virpal (his two sons were Haley (Dabas) and Hande (Hooda)

    Contribution:
    D.S. Dahiya author ‘The Jats, Ancient Rulers’
    K.C. Yadav author ‘Haryana History and Culture’
    Ch: Hoshiar Singh Convenor ‘World Jat Youth Convention Oct..1986 at Kanjhawla’

    Can we know your source for this information also the primary sorce from which this information has been quoted,ie source for dahiya or kc yadav if possible.

    If we see historically dahiya got is too old to be derived out of Chohan some eight hundred years ago.

    There is a famous saying that bhats have made prthviraj ancesstor of half of north indian population.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by anooplather View Post
    I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT BEFORE THE FIRST WAR OF INDEPENDENCE 1857 HARYANA WAS PART OF DELHI SUBA. THIS TERRITORY LATER WAS SEPRATED FROM PUNJAB AND IS TODAY CALLED THE STATE OF HARYANA.HISTORICALY THE DELHI SUBA EXTENDED UP TO SATLUJ RIVER.
    Hi Anoop


    Haryana was the orginal country of Tomar kings and delhi was only capital of this country.Britishers came very late and reached delhi even later.This country included western UP that was the part of tomar rulers of delhi since eighth century.

    These facts have been recorded in historical books one of which was writen in 1132 AD by jain scholar Sridar ,though the jain scholars give a date 1132 AD but I feel the date is much earlier as he write about JAT king balhara whose reign we found by 900AD according to Arbaic scholars.

    You can find it at
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/files/dhilli_tomar.pdf
    Dhilli article, Tomars, Pasanahacariu (1187 KB)


    In the region of Haryana which has numerous villages and whose inhabitants are very happy there is a large city called Dillika favoured by Indra destryoing hostile armies a mass of wealthboiling the blood of enemy.............

    This is the reason that language and culture of western UP is still considered as haryanvi not western up as the name of their country was always Haryana not UP.
    Last edited by narenderkharb; October 14th, 2006 at 08:24 PM.

  14. #14

    Haryana Part Of Delhi Suba

    Dear narendar ido agree with u that western up was also part of delhi suba. but what i wanted to assert through my feelin was that delhi suba or say haryana extended up to satluj river even till 1857. and in political terms dilli suba has aright on water from satluj. and so also haryana.

  15. #15
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    very true sir

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